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	<title>Comments for Purely Reactive</title>
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	<description>(as opposed to predictive)</description>
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		<title>Comment on What We Need Is What We Have (Part II) by scq2</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/10/21/what-we-need-is-what-we-have-part-ii/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator>scq2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Where Do We Go From Here?
Perhaps what we do now is look closely at what we have, how students learn and how teachers teach online. Despite results that some have seen as muddled and inconclusive, the meta-study by the Department of Education study asks three cogent questions: a) how does the effectiveness of online learning compare with face- to-face instruction? b) What practices are associated with more effective online learning? c) What conditions influence the effectiveness of online learning? 
Online learning forces us to reevaluate student learning models and extant pedagogy.  We move away from the idea of teacher centered learning towards a student centered model. Learning online is simply a more thoughtful process, and as such, it is an asset better than conventional face-to-face. Students in most instances write to learn. This activity is inherently more self–reflective because students spend more time working with the course material inculcating more thoughtful responses to the material. We use multiple technologies from blogs and wikis to iTunesU and other websites to audio/visual lectures, films and YouTube to name a few of the tools now available to us—all of which actively engage the student in a way that chalk and blackboard simply do not. Admittedly, some applications work better than others and as we progress these applications will be refined or shelved. But just look around you, our students are already so familiar with the digital world.  They can download and play educational content in much the same way they may already do with music, videos and dare I say it, games. Our involvement with technology is changing the way brains function. We are not simply talking hand eye coordination here, but real cognitive changes and the way we learn. Online instructors are at the forefront of this change.  To deliver course content in a method that the student is already using and comfortable with surely makes for more efficacious pedagogy. Our focus now should be on refining the ways in which course content is delivered that best suits this student and this medium.
Data from Institutional Research at our institution shows virtually no involvement in student government or intramural activities. Students at a college such as ours have many outside obligations that impede their ability to participate in university activities. Often, they are running from classroom to job to home, and many have children.   In a blended learning environment, students who take some of their courses online work together in a cooperative. In the Discussion Board (DB) area, interaction among students becomes the nexus, the very heart of learning.  The teacher becomes a facilitator and sometimes mediator to keep the discussions on topic, to encourage the self-reflection and initiative that students begin to take, all of which helps to create a community of learners, which somewhat paradoxically, may not always occur as naturally in a face-to-face classroom. In the classroom, it is easy to call on the students who raise their hands, and often the quieter, perhaps shyer ones can be overlooked.  In an online environment, all students are required to participate, and moreover, for many its relative anonymity provides a safe place for them to join in. 
We need to look at the disinterest by some department heads and some faculty. Those of us who have been at the forefront of teaching with technology know only too well the departmental resistance there is in some quarters to this “new fangled” approach to instruction. Usually those who think it pedagogically unsound, in my experience, tend to have limited computer skills and have formed an opinion based on no research. They simply cannot imagine pedagogy that is not teacher centered—the sage on the stage. 
 What is needed now is a CUNY-wide initiative that calls for a general review of existing coverage of online courses and parity across disciplines. Those courses that are offered online are consistently filled and students want more, and yet, still, there are some departments that only offer a handful of courses each semester. Furthermore, we need to look more closely at how we are creating and implementing our course content with the technology that is out there, and not worry about the slowdown in new technology. We are at a juncture where CUNY needs to really pause and assess what kind of teaching and learning is taking place at its various institutions. Online learning is not a fad. We are at the beginning of a paradigm shift to a more complex multi-dimensional style of pedagogy.
Susan Quarrell and Mary Carroll</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where Do We Go From Here?<br />
Perhaps what we do now is look closely at what we have, how students learn and how teachers teach online. Despite results that some have seen as muddled and inconclusive, the meta-study by the Department of Education study asks three cogent questions: a) how does the effectiveness of online learning compare with face- to-face instruction? b) What practices are associated with more effective online learning? c) What conditions influence the effectiveness of online learning?<br />
Online learning forces us to reevaluate student learning models and extant pedagogy.  We move away from the idea of teacher centered learning towards a student centered model. Learning online is simply a more thoughtful process, and as such, it is an asset better than conventional face-to-face. Students in most instances write to learn. This activity is inherently more self–reflective because students spend more time working with the course material inculcating more thoughtful responses to the material. We use multiple technologies from blogs and wikis to iTunesU and other websites to audio/visual lectures, films and YouTube to name a few of the tools now available to us—all of which actively engage the student in a way that chalk and blackboard simply do not. Admittedly, some applications work better than others and as we progress these applications will be refined or shelved. But just look around you, our students are already so familiar with the digital world.  They can download and play educational content in much the same way they may already do with music, videos and dare I say it, games. Our involvement with technology is changing the way brains function. We are not simply talking hand eye coordination here, but real cognitive changes and the way we learn. Online instructors are at the forefront of this change.  To deliver course content in a method that the student is already using and comfortable with surely makes for more efficacious pedagogy. Our focus now should be on refining the ways in which course content is delivered that best suits this student and this medium.<br />
Data from Institutional Research at our institution shows virtually no involvement in student government or intramural activities. Students at a college such as ours have many outside obligations that impede their ability to participate in university activities. Often, they are running from classroom to job to home, and many have children.   In a blended learning environment, students who take some of their courses online work together in a cooperative. In the Discussion Board (DB) area, interaction among students becomes the nexus, the very heart of learning.  The teacher becomes a facilitator and sometimes mediator to keep the discussions on topic, to encourage the self-reflection and initiative that students begin to take, all of which helps to create a community of learners, which somewhat paradoxically, may not always occur as naturally in a face-to-face classroom. In the classroom, it is easy to call on the students who raise their hands, and often the quieter, perhaps shyer ones can be overlooked.  In an online environment, all students are required to participate, and moreover, for many its relative anonymity provides a safe place for them to join in.<br />
We need to look at the disinterest by some department heads and some faculty. Those of us who have been at the forefront of teaching with technology know only too well the departmental resistance there is in some quarters to this “new fangled” approach to instruction. Usually those who think it pedagogically unsound, in my experience, tend to have limited computer skills and have formed an opinion based on no research. They simply cannot imagine pedagogy that is not teacher centered—the sage on the stage.<br />
 What is needed now is a CUNY-wide initiative that calls for a general review of existing coverage of online courses and parity across disciplines. Those courses that are offered online are consistently filled and students want more, and yet, still, there are some departments that only offer a handful of courses each semester. Furthermore, we need to look more closely at how we are creating and implementing our course content with the technology that is out there, and not worry about the slowdown in new technology. We are at a juncture where CUNY needs to really pause and assess what kind of teaching and learning is taking place at its various institutions. Online learning is not a fad. We are at the beginning of a paradigm shift to a more complex multi-dimensional style of pedagogy.<br />
Susan Quarrell and Mary Carroll</p>
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		<title>Comment on What We Need Is What We Have (Part II) by Jeff Gutkin</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/10/21/what-we-need-is-what-we-have-part-ii/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Gutkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=106#comment-95</guid>
		<description>&quot;I might even go a step further and say that most of us (faculty) don’t really understand how people learn on a fundamental level (cstein).&quot; 

This is a great thread. This statement from cstein (Chris as George has stated) is what drove me to pursue a PhD in Ed Psych at the GC. I was asked to develop courses for a library instruction and I started wondering, how do people learn? And if I don&#039;t know how people learn, how do I know how to teach them? Of course Bransford et al. answered that question in a landmark book, but it still didn&#039;t answer my question and certainly said nothing about technology. So almost 4 years later and much research I find myself investigating cognitive load, multimedia learning theories, and self-regulated learning (SRL) in hope for the magic answer. 
If one investigates cognition deeply enough, one might think that the next powerful technological teaching tool will enable direct uploading of information into the brain (a concept I have been accused of supporting). In fact, at a recent book presentation Allan Collins (Northwestern) talked about learning in isolation becoming more of the norm. I don&#039;t agree with Collins, in fact, based on social networking statistics, this generation values community and interaction with others very highly.
So, if the above statement is correct (cstein), and I agree it is, how have faculty been able to teach anything for the last 100 years? And how many faculty actively seek help in pedagogy outside the framework of technology? I can say then; before we can move into the position of integrating technological tools into pedagogy, we have to investigate our own pedagogy. So the point, I believe, still remains, what is it that I want to do in the classroom. And then after, how can I do it better with technology? 
Well to faculty who are not versed in technology, there is no real answer to the latter part without knowing what the options are; but, there is also the increase in work that it takes to use technology. So it is not only what, but why should I do it? With some results favorable to online learning, the emphasis should be learner-centered, cognitively as well as formative assessment wise, and simply to teach better. But what I think is overlooked is teaching the students to self-regulate their learning in online environments. We can&#039;t assume that because this generation knows how to click on Facebook that they know how to learn, or that they want to do all of their learning online. I favor the blended learning for this reason. In my opinion, placing certain content online allows for more critical discourse in the classroom. Conversely, one can lecture directly in the class and place all conversation online. Regardless of preference, the field is at a point of where do we go from here and there is no simple answer. Engaging faculty in conversation is the first step. This probably why some faculty call me the tech-therapist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I might even go a step further and say that most of us (faculty) don’t really understand how people learn on a fundamental level (cstein).&#8221; </p>
<p>This is a great thread. This statement from cstein (Chris as George has stated) is what drove me to pursue a PhD in Ed Psych at the GC. I was asked to develop courses for a library instruction and I started wondering, how do people learn? And if I don&#8217;t know how people learn, how do I know how to teach them? Of course Bransford et al. answered that question in a landmark book, but it still didn&#8217;t answer my question and certainly said nothing about technology. So almost 4 years later and much research I find myself investigating cognitive load, multimedia learning theories, and self-regulated learning (SRL) in hope for the magic answer.<br />
If one investigates cognition deeply enough, one might think that the next powerful technological teaching tool will enable direct uploading of information into the brain (a concept I have been accused of supporting). In fact, at a recent book presentation Allan Collins (Northwestern) talked about learning in isolation becoming more of the norm. I don&#8217;t agree with Collins, in fact, based on social networking statistics, this generation values community and interaction with others very highly.<br />
So, if the above statement is correct (cstein), and I agree it is, how have faculty been able to teach anything for the last 100 years? And how many faculty actively seek help in pedagogy outside the framework of technology? I can say then; before we can move into the position of integrating technological tools into pedagogy, we have to investigate our own pedagogy. So the point, I believe, still remains, what is it that I want to do in the classroom. And then after, how can I do it better with technology?<br />
Well to faculty who are not versed in technology, there is no real answer to the latter part without knowing what the options are; but, there is also the increase in work that it takes to use technology. So it is not only what, but why should I do it? With some results favorable to online learning, the emphasis should be learner-centered, cognitively as well as formative assessment wise, and simply to teach better. But what I think is overlooked is teaching the students to self-regulate their learning in online environments. We can&#8217;t assume that because this generation knows how to click on Facebook that they know how to learn, or that they want to do all of their learning online. I favor the blended learning for this reason. In my opinion, placing certain content online allows for more critical discourse in the classroom. Conversely, one can lecture directly in the class and place all conversation online. Regardless of preference, the field is at a point of where do we go from here and there is no simple answer. Engaging faculty in conversation is the first step. This probably why some faculty call me the tech-therapist.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What We Need Is What We Have (Part II) by George Otte</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/10/21/what-we-need-is-what-we-have-part-ii/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>George Otte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=106#comment-94</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right to point out, Chris, that the real challenge here is not to say that it&#039;s the teaching and not the technology that is pivotal; the challenge is to say how. I tried to get at that (via John Seely Brown) a little at the end. But, pushed by you, I will push myself further.

A lot of people think the answer is to ask more work of teachers. (The corollary is that&#039;s why more aren&#039;t doing it.)  To use a variant on a phrase you use, this is so much mierda del toro. Nothing written on online learning has held up as well as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sloan-c.org/publications/jaln/v8n3/v8n3_pelz.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bill Pelz&#039;s piece&lt;/a&gt;, and his argument there is that the online environment is one in which students should teach themselves and each other more, not require more work from the teacher. 

I think he&#039;s right. I know he is, at least in my experience. The five sections I taught for the Online Baccalaureate were the best teaching experiences of my long teaching life for a simple reason: I was able to set things up so that, if they did what I asked, they learned, and that was demonstrable. Simple as that.

I should give an example. One assignment (this was in the Digital Info class, basically a computer literacy class) was to do a one-pager on some aspect of Internet use they found interesting. They were to do it as an article (I gave them &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.users.drew.edu/sjamieso/resources/starting.html#journalistic&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the journalistic questions&lt;/a&gt; to answer), and they were to follow a simple scheme of source attribution. No more than one page, thought layout, at least one image. 

I got the best papers I&#039;d ever gotten at that kind or level of instruction (and I&#039;m a retooled English prof -- writing teacher, basically -- who&#039;s taught at three universities). But that wasn&#039;t anything I could attribute to the online environment. It was what else happened with those papers.

Three things, basically:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
*First, they were supposed to be first stabs at a final research project, but that had to be a group project, so they were all reading and commenting on one another&#039;s work, looking to choose up a team. (This was of course one reason why the papers were so good in the first place.) 

*Second, they were teaching the content of the course in the process of doing the assignment. All sorts of things that I didn&#039;t have that much time for (identity and privacy issues, the &quot;digital divide,&quot; virtual worlds, multiplayer gaming, etc.) got great write-ups and advanced everyone&#039;s knowledge, including mine. 

*Third, and this was the trick part of the assignment, I locked down the discussion board on which they published these things (so they couldn&#039;t change what they had posted), and then, three weeks later (after a thorough treatment of plagiarism and how the Internet presumably aids and abets it), I had them go back to their one-pagers and do a self-assessment of how well they did on source attribution.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You can guess a lot of what happened. (For one thing, NO ONE attributed the images they used -- or designed their own.) Some self-assessments were egregiously self-flagellating; others were too lacking in self-scrutiny. Every single one allowed me to distill an important point (almost never the same point) about the use of sources in just a few lines of response.

I never, in a quarter of a century of teaching writing, accomplished so much with so little effort. I still felt I was teaching. I had a role to play. But it didn&#039;t require any high-tech bells and whistles. And it certainly didn&#039;t require that I work hard. The online environment meant that there could be lots of cross-teaching, peer work, mutual support, competition to shine, and a very light touch from yours truly. 

This is just one example, of course, and I don&#039;t know how generalizable it might be. I do know faculty can&#039;t be told how to teach. But I also know the online environment allows models to be more visible, more fully exposed, more easily shared. That&#039;s important: online pedagogy will typically move forward by models, not mandates.&lt;code&gt;&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right to point out, Chris, that the real challenge here is not to say that it&#8217;s the teaching and not the technology that is pivotal; the challenge is to say how. I tried to get at that (via John Seely Brown) a little at the end. But, pushed by you, I will push myself further.</p>
<p>A lot of people think the answer is to ask more work of teachers. (The corollary is that&#8217;s why more aren&#8217;t doing it.)  To use a variant on a phrase you use, this is so much mierda del toro. Nothing written on online learning has held up as well as <a href="http://www.sloan-c.org/publications/jaln/v8n3/v8n3_pelz.asp" rel="nofollow">Bill Pelz&#8217;s piece</a>, and his argument there is that the online environment is one in which students should teach themselves and each other more, not require more work from the teacher. </p>
<p>I think he&#8217;s right. I know he is, at least in my experience. The five sections I taught for the Online Baccalaureate were the best teaching experiences of my long teaching life for a simple reason: I was able to set things up so that, if they did what I asked, they learned, and that was demonstrable. Simple as that.</p>
<p>I should give an example. One assignment (this was in the Digital Info class, basically a computer literacy class) was to do a one-pager on some aspect of Internet use they found interesting. They were to do it as an article (I gave them <a href="http://www.users.drew.edu/sjamieso/resources/starting.html#journalistic" rel="nofollow">the journalistic questions</a> to answer), and they were to follow a simple scheme of source attribution. No more than one page, thought layout, at least one image. </p>
<p>I got the best papers I&#8217;d ever gotten at that kind or level of instruction (and I&#8217;m a retooled English prof &#8212; writing teacher, basically &#8212; who&#8217;s taught at three universities). But that wasn&#8217;t anything I could attribute to the online environment. It was what else happened with those papers.</p>
<p>Three things, basically:</p>
<blockquote><p>
*First, they were supposed to be first stabs at a final research project, but that had to be a group project, so they were all reading and commenting on one another&#8217;s work, looking to choose up a team. (This was of course one reason why the papers were so good in the first place.) </p>
<p>*Second, they were teaching the content of the course in the process of doing the assignment. All sorts of things that I didn&#8217;t have that much time for (identity and privacy issues, the &#8220;digital divide,&#8221; virtual worlds, multiplayer gaming, etc.) got great write-ups and advanced everyone&#8217;s knowledge, including mine. </p>
<p>*Third, and this was the trick part of the assignment, I locked down the discussion board on which they published these things (so they couldn&#8217;t change what they had posted), and then, three weeks later (after a thorough treatment of plagiarism and how the Internet presumably aids and abets it), I had them go back to their one-pagers and do a self-assessment of how well they did on source attribution.
</p></blockquote>
<p>You can guess a lot of what happened. (For one thing, NO ONE attributed the images they used &#8212; or designed their own.) Some self-assessments were egregiously self-flagellating; others were too lacking in self-scrutiny. Every single one allowed me to distill an important point (almost never the same point) about the use of sources in just a few lines of response.</p>
<p>I never, in a quarter of a century of teaching writing, accomplished so much with so little effort. I still felt I was teaching. I had a role to play. But it didn&#8217;t require any high-tech bells and whistles. And it certainly didn&#8217;t require that I work hard. The online environment meant that there could be lots of cross-teaching, peer work, mutual support, competition to shine, and a very light touch from yours truly. </p>
<p>This is just one example, of course, and I don&#8217;t know how generalizable it might be. I do know faculty can&#8217;t be told how to teach. But I also know the online environment allows models to be more visible, more fully exposed, more easily shared. That&#8217;s important: online pedagogy will typically move forward by models, not mandates.<code></code></p>
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		<title>Comment on What We Need Is What We Have (Part II) by cstein</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/10/21/what-we-need-is-what-we-have-part-ii/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>cstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=106#comment-93</guid>
		<description>I feel your post deserves a much longer response but this will have to do for now. I wholeheartedly agree that it is not about the technology. That&#039;s always changing and if your excuse is waiting for the next lateset and greatest then you&#039;re always waiting. 

Also agreed that online/blended learning invites a new pedagogical approach, not just a &quot;course conversion&quot;.

So why the lack of technology enhanced and online courses? To put it crudely I think the idea that faculty are waiting for a tech innovation is B.S. There&#039;s the tried and true response of lazy faculty with yellowed notes, tenure and full professorship but I don&#039;t think that covers it as well. Although I do concede that inertia and lack of incentives plays a part.

I think many faculty do, like you, realize that online and blended learning requires a new pedagogical approach. However they don&#039;t really know what that approach is. They also don&#039;t really know where to start figuring it out. So they sit on the sidelines and wait to see if someone else has figured it out.

I might even go a step further and say that most of us (faculty) don&#039;t really understand how people learn on a fundamental level. We know how we were taught our subject and we have ideas about how to fiddle with that model and make it better but when you present an entirely new medium that requires a new approach we don&#039;t have a good foundational model of what learning requires that we can use to build a new approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel your post deserves a much longer response but this will have to do for now. I wholeheartedly agree that it is not about the technology. That&#8217;s always changing and if your excuse is waiting for the next lateset and greatest then you&#8217;re always waiting. </p>
<p>Also agreed that online/blended learning invites a new pedagogical approach, not just a &#8220;course conversion&#8221;.</p>
<p>So why the lack of technology enhanced and online courses? To put it crudely I think the idea that faculty are waiting for a tech innovation is B.S. There&#8217;s the tried and true response of lazy faculty with yellowed notes, tenure and full professorship but I don&#8217;t think that covers it as well. Although I do concede that inertia and lack of incentives plays a part.</p>
<p>I think many faculty do, like you, realize that online and blended learning requires a new pedagogical approach. However they don&#8217;t really know what that approach is. They also don&#8217;t really know where to start figuring it out. So they sit on the sidelines and wait to see if someone else has figured it out.</p>
<p>I might even go a step further and say that most of us (faculty) don&#8217;t really understand how people learn on a fundamental level. We know how we were taught our subject and we have ideas about how to fiddle with that model and make it better but when you present an entirely new medium that requires a new approach we don&#8217;t have a good foundational model of what learning requires that we can use to build a new approach.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What We Need Is What We Have (Part I) by Purely Reactive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What We Need Is What We Have (Part II)</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/10/06/what-we-need-is-what-we-have-part-i/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Purely Reactive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What We Need Is What We Have (Part II)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=99#comment-92</guid>
		<description>[...] What We Need Is What We Have (Part I)  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What We Need Is What We Have (Part I)  [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Open Is Open? by George Otte</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/09/22/how-open-is-open/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>George Otte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=92#comment-91</guid>
		<description>I always embraced the conception of the the Sophists advanced by one of my heroes, Terry Eagleton, in his wise and wry book &lt;i&gt;Literary Theory: An Introduction&lt;/i&gt;, where he argued that, understood aright, literature is a small subset of rhetoric. (Ditto philosophy, BTW.) One of &lt;i&gt;his&lt;/i&gt; heroes, Marx, would have approved.

I&#039;m glad we are not that far apart. Maybe even less so than we seem to say. One of modern rhetoric&#039;s terms is &quot;enabling constraints&quot; -- the fact that apparent constraints of context and circumstance may actually have a generative effect. But then this comes from the same ilk who prefer &quot;productive disequilibrium&quot; (argument, also generative) to consensus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always embraced the conception of the the Sophists advanced by one of my heroes, Terry Eagleton, in his wise and wry book <i>Literary Theory: An Introduction</i>, where he argued that, understood aright, literature is a small subset of rhetoric. (Ditto philosophy, BTW.) One of <i>his</i> heroes, Marx, would have approved.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad we are not that far apart. Maybe even less so than we seem to say. One of modern rhetoric&#8217;s terms is &#8220;enabling constraints&#8221; &#8212; the fact that apparent constraints of context and circumstance may actually have a generative effect. But then this comes from the same ilk who prefer &#8220;productive disequilibrium&#8221; (argument, also generative) to consensus.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Open Is Open? by Boone Gorges</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/09/22/how-open-is-open/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Boone Gorges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=92#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Yes, I think we do pretty much agree. (And yes, I was mainly feigning offense!)

Having been trained as a philosopher (and hence a Socratophile), I suppose I&#039;m part of the team that produces all the bad press about Sophists. I apologize on behalf of the group :)

I see what you mean about not arguing from principle - and I gather that this is more a strategic decision than a philosophical one - but my point is that there would be nothing inconsistent about your doing so. Embracing certain kinds of constraints doesn&#039;t imply rejecting principles of openness, and in fact one&#039;s principled desire for openness might be the motivating factor for embrace certain constraints (at least if the last few sentences of my previous comment are true).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think we do pretty much agree. (And yes, I was mainly feigning offense!)</p>
<p>Having been trained as a philosopher (and hence a Socratophile), I suppose I&#8217;m part of the team that produces all the bad press about Sophists. I apologize on behalf of the group <img src='http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I see what you mean about not arguing from principle &#8211; and I gather that this is more a strategic decision than a philosophical one &#8211; but my point is that there would be nothing inconsistent about your doing so. Embracing certain kinds of constraints doesn&#8217;t imply rejecting principles of openness, and in fact one&#8217;s principled desire for openness might be the motivating factor for embrace certain constraints (at least if the last few sentences of my previous comment are true).</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Open Is Open? by George Otte</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/09/22/how-open-is-open/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>George Otte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=92#comment-89</guid>
		<description>I may be missing your irony in wondering if you&#039;re missing mine, Boone, but on the chance that you really do take offense, you should know that I am a professional rhetorician (or was in another life) and have the highest regard for the Sophists (who have taken a bad rap, deserve better than they got from Plato et alia). I would never put &quot;mere&quot; in front of &quot;rhetoric&quot; or &quot;rhetorician&quot; (and of course didn&#039;t here). I was in fact and of course arguing that things were not so simple as an open/closed dichotomy would imply, which is why I concluded with noting my disbelief in absolutes. In fact, the only think I wasn&#039;t wholly serious about was being without principle. I do make a principle of not arguing from principle, and that is what I meant. I think that context matters, that constraints are ineluctable, that ... well, I find myself paraphrasing you (and regard your second paragraph as a paraphrase of what I was saying), so I&#039;ll just say that I don&#039;t think we&#039;re that far apart. No?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be missing your irony in wondering if you&#8217;re missing mine, Boone, but on the chance that you really do take offense, you should know that I am a professional rhetorician (or was in another life) and have the highest regard for the Sophists (who have taken a bad rap, deserve better than they got from Plato et alia). I would never put &#8220;mere&#8221; in front of &#8220;rhetoric&#8221; or &#8220;rhetorician&#8221; (and of course didn&#8217;t here). I was in fact and of course arguing that things were not so simple as an open/closed dichotomy would imply, which is why I concluded with noting my disbelief in absolutes. In fact, the only think I wasn&#8217;t wholly serious about was being without principle. I do make a principle of not arguing from principle, and that is what I meant. I think that context matters, that constraints are ineluctable, that &#8230; well, I find myself paraphrasing you (and regard your second paragraph as a paraphrase of what I was saying), so I&#8217;ll just say that I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re that far apart. No?</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Open Is Open? by Boone Gorges</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/09/22/how-open-is-open/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Boone Gorges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=92#comment-88</guid>
		<description>George, I appreciate the humility implied by your self-deprecation, but I take offense at the idea that the failure to embrace one of the two extreme positions available makes one a neo-Sophist, or a &quot;mere&quot; rhetorician, or a man without principles. Pragmatism - the cognizance that one&#039;s decisions are made against the backdrop of, and should reflect the relative importance of, the various facts on the ground - not only counts as a &lt;em&gt;principle&lt;/em&gt;, but it strikes me as a downright &lt;em&gt;virtuous&lt;/em&gt; principle. (See: Aristotle.)

That said, when it comes to the CUNY Academic Commons, the questions surrounding openness are not as simple as open-v-closed, or even as simple as the spectrum between open and closed. There are different &lt;em&gt;kinds&lt;/em&gt; of openness that operate largely independently of one another. Thus the Commons might be less than totally open with respect to its membership or to its intended purpose. But that doesn&#039;t mean that we can&#039;t embrace a great deal of openness in other respects: the software on which the site runs, the scholarship that its members produce, and so on. A space that is totally open in every respect, attempting to be everything to everybody, is likely to serve no individual member very well. In a sense, the kind of openness you consider here is given up, and in exchange we are better able to foster other kinds of openness. Pragmatism at work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, I appreciate the humility implied by your self-deprecation, but I take offense at the idea that the failure to embrace one of the two extreme positions available makes one a neo-Sophist, or a &#8220;mere&#8221; rhetorician, or a man without principles. Pragmatism &#8211; the cognizance that one&#8217;s decisions are made against the backdrop of, and should reflect the relative importance of, the various facts on the ground &#8211; not only counts as a <em>principle</em>, but it strikes me as a downright <em>virtuous</em> principle. (See: Aristotle.)</p>
<p>That said, when it comes to the CUNY Academic Commons, the questions surrounding openness are not as simple as open-v-closed, or even as simple as the spectrum between open and closed. There are different <em>kinds</em> of openness that operate largely independently of one another. Thus the Commons might be less than totally open with respect to its membership or to its intended purpose. But that doesn&#8217;t mean that we can&#8217;t embrace a great deal of openness in other respects: the software on which the site runs, the scholarship that its members produce, and so on. A space that is totally open in every respect, attempting to be everything to everybody, is likely to serve no individual member very well. In a sense, the kind of openness you consider here is given up, and in exchange we are better able to foster other kinds of openness. Pragmatism at work.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Conspiracy of the Willing? by Matthew K. Gold</title>
		<link>http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2009/09/07/a-conspiracy-of-the-willing/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew K. Gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://purelyreactive.commons.gc.cuny.edu/?p=77#comment-87</guid>
		<description>It seems to me, Karen, that a brief, simple, low-key welcome is all that&#039;s needed -- something along the lines of &quot;Welcome to the Commons!  Please let me know whether you need any help as you use the site.&quot;  The idea is just to offer the new member at least one personal connection that can be explored, or not, as he or she wishes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me, Karen, that a brief, simple, low-key welcome is all that&#8217;s needed &#8212; something along the lines of &#8220;Welcome to the Commons!  Please let me know whether you need any help as you use the site.&#8221;  The idea is just to offer the new member at least one personal connection that can be explored, or not, as he or she wishes.</p>
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